Kurusu Akira (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
criminaljustice) wrote2018-10-28 01:20 pm
criminaljustice) wrote2018-10-28 01:20 pmEntry tags:
Imeeji Inbox
This is Boss AKA Joker AKA "Prisoner". Leave a message.
criminaljustice) wrote2018-10-28 01:20 pm
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Joker: fox
Joker: how in the world would you say "redemption is not within your grasp"
Joker: and not hear "nothing will ever redeem you"
Joker: when you're talking to someone who murdered me and likely murdered the rest of you guys?
[like jesus fucking christ, that's a pretty big "oopsie"]
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fox is typing...]
Fox: That
Fox: is not what I meant but now that you put it together like that, I see why he might take it poorly.
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[wow.
just.
HOW???]
Joker: so what DID you mean?
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Fox: If it is forgiveness for his actions he wants, he has already earned it, effectively.
Fox: You yourself said that the two of you are "even" now, so if not in words, in deeds it has been made true.
Fox: So if redemption = forgiveness, then it is done with.
Fox: But even if there are things that cannot be forgiven, it is still worth it to try and do better, to make change, even if you cannot be redeemed.
Fox: That is why we steal hearts, isn't it? We cannot forgive those who have wronged us, but we can ensure that they face justice and change their ways.
Fox: Seeking redemption seems foolish to me, then. It is an idea with no concrete basis in reality, a mental trap, an excuse for guilt and self-flagellation, and A has suffered enough of that.
Fox: I do not want him to feel like your (or our) forgiveness is going to be what makes everything better for him, because I honestly do not think it will.
Fox: I don't want that to weigh on him any longer!
Fox: He deserves to move on, to seek better things.
Fox: That is what I meant.
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nah.
let's not. thinking about that.]
Joker: redemption isn't just about forgiveness from others, Fox
Joker: it's also about finding forgiveness from yourself
Joker: and saying "redemption is out of your reach" is basically confirming for him "that'll never happen"
Joker: and if it'll never happen, then what would be the point in moving on?
Joker: A doesn't have much in the way of self-esteem in the first place
Joker: Shido especially saw to that
Joker: so while it's true he might use the idea of redemption as a way to keep himself guilt-ridden and self-flagellating
Joker: you've also basically told him "this is how you are and that won't change, there is no improvement or better, there's just this terrible person you already are"
Joker: i know it seems like jumping through hoops to get there but
[... a pause. because he just
this is complicated
and he doesn't want to SCOLD Fox, just... get him to understand.]
Joker: you can't be so dismissive about this sort of thing
Joker: it's really personal for him
Joker: because he remembers killing the one person he knows now would have helped him deal with Shido in the first place
Joker: on Shido's orders
Joker: understand?
Joker: he could forgive himself for killing me
Joker: but he'll always struggle with the last part of it
Joker: and maybe I'm biased but it's not really fair to him to say "it's done and over with, you've been forgiven"
Joker: when the biggest offense is Shido got away with it because of him
Joker: and I don't think that's something we can help with unless we get out of here and get at Shido
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Fox: You're right.
Fox: I spoke carelessly. I should have known better.
Fox: Do you really think he thinks I think he's terrible and unforgivable?
Fox: I have never thought that way.
Fox: Even when he angered me, when I felt shock and betrayal, I thought of him as someone... like us. Like the Phantom Thieves.
Fox: Someone whose life had been twisted by adults, who did not deserve the pain that was forced upon us.
[another pause]
Fox: What should I do now?
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Joker: but he can't see that
Joker: Shido had him so twisted up
Joker: and it was a struggle for him to finally see that *I* was on his side
Joker: so it's not surprising that he would immediately assume the worst in what you said
Joker: and there was no way you could have understood the real problem
Joker: we don't tend to talk about Shido much in the first place
Joker: so go easy on yourself with this, first of all
Joker: second of all, give me some time to talk with him
Joker: he's going to be hurt and he doesn't deal with being hurt well
Joker: but even if I manage to talk him down from the "no friends ever" or "what's the point of self-improvement" ledge
Joker: you're still going to have to figure out how to deal with how he responds to you
Joker: you hurt him
Joker: so that makes you a danger to him
Joker: expect to be treated that way, but take no shit from him, either
Joker: fair warning: our relationship got started pretty much with that sort of thing and it took a few mutual murders for us to get it out of our system.
Joker: probably won't be as bad for you
Joker: i'm like Max Danger to him
[... yes, he is saying the last bit as flippantly as it seems]
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Fox: I
Fox: would prefer there to be no murder involved, if possible.
Fox: I am sorry for causing this and for imposing upon you.
Fox: You have my eternal gratitude.
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Joker: though he'll probably be discouraged because he knows i'd be upset with him
Joker: and i think ours mostly happened because there was a bunch of games with Going Insane being a thing that happened
[not that he has. issues. about. losing control. and sanity. or anything.
ANYWAY, IGNORE THAT.]
Joker: anyway, don't worry about imposing something on me
Joker: especially if it involves A
Joker: i'm glad you told me about it so i can help both you and him out
[especially since A might avoid talking about it or might be pissed with him because he's been encouraging you two doing things]
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Fox: I will try to prepare myself for the worst.
Fox: Please let me know if there is anything I can do in the meantime.
Fox: I love you.
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Joker: try not to worry too much, ok?
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Fox: Alright.
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[time to pester a detective]